Allow to set the stroke below the fill in appearance panel for text characters
When I try to move the "stroke" row in appearance panel to move below the "fill" row, the row returns to previous position on top.
This is happening to me since the - I think - 11 version of Illustrator.
Now I have version 27.1.1 and windows 11 pro. Nothing changed.
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Phew, glad I was able to convey the weird way it works.
Having whatever experience does not really help sometimes with Ai. You can use it for decades and forget how to enable reference points for symbols — just a recent story for me.As for the 'another color' — still not sure if I get you here. A text by default has no fill and no color at the container ('Type') level, and if you want to add a stroke to it — sure you have to add it... but yes, not just by setting a stroke, but by adding and appearance item... Yeah, I think it’s what you meant, and that’s how you ended in the 'Characters' level.
Definitely worth revising.The order of items is just the default. Making a difference between a text (where 'stroke on top' seems like not appropriate) and other cases (where 'stroke on top' is OK) will probably make more confusion than clarity.
Thanks for raising this up!
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Ryplay commented
You are right, it is confusing.
Firstly, I understood very well everything you explained earlier.
I have been an Illustrator user for almost 30 years and know something about it.It is just that I didn't realise (and would never have realised without you) that for a text object that has a fill and stroke colour set at the OBJECT level, I must ADD ANOTHER colour in the appearances palette just to be able to change their order.
By the way, this order should be reversed by default for text objects - it is a typographical mistake to give an outline over a fill for a text. But this is other story.
Once more - thank you for the explanation, but I will claim that the way it is working isn't right, and should be fixed, or at least commonly known over the internet.
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This is confusing :)
I’ll try again!if you are referring to the 'app_panel1.gif', which has white fill and block stroke, then you don’t need to add anything at the Characters level at all.
You have to remove the stroke you created there, exit to the Type level (double-click on it in the Appearance panel), and apply the stroke to the whole Type container.
You should not add stroke to characters at their level, because you won’t be able to change the order of attributes.If you have a white text (by default when you apply a swatch to a text it’s your characters to get it, not the text’s 'container'), and you want it to have a black stroke underneath — don’t double click 'Characters' in the Appearance (because, again, you won’t be able to change the order of attributes at that level). Apply a new stroke for the type object. No, it’s not stupid :) You are adding a new attribute for a type container, what’s stupid about that?
The fact you can’t change the order of appearance attributes at the Characters’ level is hardly a bug, and the team won’t ever consider it as one. It’s a 'known limitation' at best. However, I can’t say it’s a best treatment. So I vote for this.
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Ryplay commented
Don't you think Egor, that adding "new stroke" and "new fill" to the text object which has white fill and a black stroke (just for example) is stupid idea?
Yes it works (I came up with this doing last screenshot for you), but still, I think this is a rather bug than a feature ;)
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It looks the same for me.
You have to add a new fill or a stroke, because by default the type 'container' has nor fill or stroke — it’s 'hollow' to allow us to see filled characters inside. In my GIF I click the 'Add New Stroke' button.
Please reply back if you are able to make it work. -
Ryplay commented
I really appreciate your effort Egor.
Unfortunately, you can see below, how my appearance panel when I select my normal type object looks like.
That's why I tried to do everything at "character level". -
Ah, now it’s clear.
Please see the GIF I made.The thing is — you are trying to change the order of attributes at the character level — and this is indeed impossible, and never was.
A text object in Illustrator can be treated as a 'special live group' container, with live characters in it. While the container itself allows having 'complex' appearance (and a stroke-behind-fill is one), the glyphs inside can have only a 'simple' appearance: one fill, one stroke, stroke above only (with ability to set custom opacities) ...but you can do it for each and every glyph, if you like — when you color each letter into its own color, you operate at the characters level.
So if you double-click the 'Characters' in the Appearance panel, you go 'inside' and get limited with 'simple' rules.
And if you want to put a stroke behind the fill — you have to go to back to 'Type' level (or just don’t enter the 'Characters' sub-level and there you can do whatever you want with the text.Why though? I guess there were some limitations maybe? Appearance is considered to be an advanced technique, and the demand was never that high because of it.
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Ryplay commented
here you are.
All I do is a simple dragging with the mouse.The most frustrating is, that I know it works for some people. But for me it is not working for many years. And I cant find any clue why.
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Ryplay, I have no problems with putting a stroke under characters in the Appearance panel.
Can you make a short GIF (www.cockos.com/licecap/ or blog.bahraniapps.com/gifcam/ are two nice apps for this) or a video with the demo of the behavior on your side?